Chase Joy 100 Ways

Chasing Joy in Marriage with the Enneagram with Kellie Artis

April 28, 2020 Nicole Groenewald / Kellie Artis Season 1 Episode 7
Chase Joy 100 Ways
Chasing Joy in Marriage with the Enneagram with Kellie Artis
Chase Joy 100 Ways
Chasing Joy in Marriage with the Enneagram with Kellie Artis
Apr 28, 2020 Season 1 Episode 7
Nicole Groenewald / Kellie Artis

The enneagram is a versatile tool to help you understand yourself and your partner better. We talk on today's episode about how you can use it to find more joy in your marriage, whether things are pretty hard right now, or things are really good. No matter your starting point the enneagram can be useful!

I'm joined today by Kellie Artis of the Advice Not Given Podcast as we discuss how the enneagram has been useful in her marriage as a military spouse.

Some resources discussed today include:

Find Kelly on Instagram and at

Find Nicole on Instagram, Facebook, and don't forget to check out the Academy!

Support the show (

Show Notes Transcript

The enneagram is a versatile tool to help you understand yourself and your partner better. We talk on today's episode about how you can use it to find more joy in your marriage, whether things are pretty hard right now, or things are really good. No matter your starting point the enneagram can be useful!

I'm joined today by Kellie Artis of the Advice Not Given Podcast as we discuss how the enneagram has been useful in her marriage as a military spouse.

Some resources discussed today include:

Find Kelly on Instagram and at

Find Nicole on Instagram, Facebook, and don't forget to check out the Academy!

Support the show (

spk_0:   0:06
welcome to the authentic sisterhood podcast. Michael is inspiring to chase joy. No matter the difficulties you face in life through self discovery, personal growth and finding community in connection, you too can become a joy chaser. I'm your host, Nicole. Well, going to the sister. Hey, Welcome, Teoh Authentic Sisterhood Podcast. Today I'm with Kelly Artists, a wife of an Army Special Forces house who is currently deployed, some mom of eight and 10 year old and an anagram Fi, which were to dive into a little bit, say Kelly is the chief operating officer for Millie. As start up focus on easing the stress of military families in the process of moving and relocating, she has been featured on Fox News to discuss the challenges of the frequent blue relocations and address members of the White House administration on military sauce and employment issues, and even had breakfast with the second lady. How cool that experience most

spk_1:   1:09
of that. It was kind of

spk_0:   1:11
me. Well, welcome. And thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. Thanks so much for having medical.

spk_1:   1:18
I'm excited to be here,

spk_0:   1:19
Meteo. So when we chatted before it sounded like the anagram has been really transformational for your marriage, and I really want to talk about that more today. But first you just tell us, like a little bit about you and kind of how you can to any Graham. Yeah.

spk_1:   1:35
So, um well, is Nicole mentioned I am married to the military on and that we try to stay away from that being such a defining like piece of our identity and it be more just kind of a facet. But I think for the purposes of this conversation, that makes a lot of sense to spend time there. Obviously, I am much more than an Army spells, but again, it's a bone of contention in our community, like

spk_0:   1:57
you're more than just that

spk_1:   1:58
just right. We do that his mom's to write just a mom. I'm just whatever. So but yes,

spk_0:   2:03
Oh, however, because of the

spk_1:   2:06
person I chose to Mary and fell in love with, um, we have had uninterested ing life and an interesting circumstances and challenges that we've had to kind of figure out and overcome. Um, and it's a lifestyle that I am deeply connected with at this point, Um, and very much so, like proud of the resiliency that we've built as a family and as a couple. But I am not gonna lie like it is not for the faint of heart. Um, I never would have willingly jumped into thin this this life, I think having seen it all laid out before me, right? Like, it wasn't really on my radar as a like, well, never marry into the military. But it certainly else I wasn't like, Do I want that life right?

spk_0:   2:49
Having grown up as a military kid, we were fortunate My dad was in the National Guard, so he didn't relocate. But we were in a town where all the other kids did. And so it was, like, kind of on my not right r e like, I don't really want that life. I watched what it looked like. The have my dad applied for 18 months and it wasn't fun on. And as an adult, I could imagine the difficulty for my mom and for other moms out there, So yeah, that s so it's like

spk_1:   3:19
it za tough fence that I feel like I walk on sometimes, cause I don't want to discourage anyone ever from you know, loving someone that's in the military or, you know, deciding to do that as a couple, as a family, or even to pursue that life choice as a profession. But, um, Wolf, you know, it's like it had If I could step back in time and just be like, Hey, girl, I wouldn't talk myself out of Mary and my husband, but I maybe would have tried a little harder to sway him to a career. I kid, I'm just kidding. Um, OK, but so the question was, how did the any a gram come along for us? And I will tell you that, um, I So we've We've been married for almost 14 years, but we've been together for over 20. We met when I was a freshman in college, and I guess that now dates me and you guys know know how old I am, But, um, we've

spk_0:   4:06
been together for quite a while,

spk_1:   4:07
So, you know, we had a relationship before the military, which I think is important. Um, but we have gone through some really crazy stuff being married when he's deployed. He's now he's on his fifth deployment. So we've had a ton of separation. We

spk_0:   4:21

spk_1:   4:21
married for probably 10 or 12 years before the scale tipped in favour of us being together more often than we had been apart. You know? I mean so, like, even when you know we weren't married, he was training or when he's not deployed, he's he's away on duty assignments or, um, just it's It's just a crazy thing to wrap your head around like being married to someone who's never home. Um, And then there's communication barriers. A lot of times, especially with the types of deployments that he does their frequent. They're very short notice. Ah, we don't use the P word in our house. And that's plan. Um, we just we don't we don't plan. We kind of just go with the flow. And that's kind of how we have Teoh. So we had gotten into this pattern of I just hardship. Kids were little. This is probably five or six years ago we had just relocated for the fourth time in like three years. Uh, and that's that's exhausting. It's kind of crunching, especially. Yeah, it's you focus so much on your four walls, your people, your people in your family get them set up, get the house set up, get all these things set up, um, and re establish, and you forget about yourself a lot of the time. Um, and I have fallen into that, um, sort of trap of just not knowing who I was anymore because there were so many transitions, so much Uprooting and, ah, you know, dismantling and jobs like I'd get a job and have to leave it. And just there were so many things that I couldn't cling to anymore. And I found myself in a new place. That was it was D. C. We went there for a year. So we knew there wasn't very there was even long enough to bother, like trying to make connections or are kind of figure my life out. It was just like, ah, holding

spk_0:   6:06
place. Not even long enough to unpack Way did. But yeah, it's yes, it's crazy.

spk_1:   6:13
So and again, this is something like this Isn't any military spouses listening? You You're shaking your head. You're saying amen. Preach right now because you know this feeling. But it is wild to sit back and think about, um especially someone who I never moved when I was little like our family didn't move. We had roots. We've lived in the same town for my entire childhood. I had the same friends from when I was, you know, three years old, up until high school graduation. So, um, anyway, just all that to say, like it it started to taking a real

spk_0:   6:41
toll on me,

spk_1:   6:42
that the lifestyle in general and all sorts of other things personally, that were going on with me and I fell down this, like, self help rabbit hole. I like looking up affirmations and like reading every burn, a brown book I could find and, like, even down like Tony Robbins path and listening to all the podcasts. And there was one podcast in particular called the literature Just I don't know any of your folks would be familiar fans off, but, um, it's an amazing podcast and actually has a lot to do with, um deconstructing a faith background because I was kind of struggling with my theology even. And so it started listening to them and they kept mentioning this thing called the any agreement. I didn't know what it was like. Well, oh, I'm a five rom before and then they ha ha ha. And they have, like, an inside joke about it. And I'm like,

spk_0:   7:31
Well, I want to know what that is. What is that? What are you talking

spk_1:   7:34
about? Um, so they had one episode where they had a couple of authors on who had just released a book. It was Suzanne Sabeel and Ian Cron's book The Road Back to You. They were promoting, and they went through all nine types in one episode, and I was hooked. From then on, I have never identified with something so strongly and so quickly, and, um, from there we just I started devouring everything Hands on got my husband into it. And he was funny cause he's because of his job. He's done been exposed to a ton of psychologists and psychological evaluations and things like that, and, um, he always just kind of blows him off. It's like, Well, whatever, you know, there whatever he doesn't, he doesn't put a lot of stock into him. He heard that one episode with me immediately landed on eight. It was just like, whoa,

spk_0:   8:25
so Okay, cool. So

spk_1:   8:28
now we have language, and now we've We've tried to really like Insert that use that as a tool Azat. Often as we like physically can. It's amazing.

spk_0:   8:37
And that's exactly like what we're really focusing on. Over in the Siris on the any Graham with authentic sisterhood is how it's a tool. Teoh help you navigate some of the harder, stickier areas of your life and how it can help you to find more joy in those areas. So I love that you just, like, plugged it that way that on accident eso it talked to me a little bit about when you first heard that episode. What was the thing that hooked you? What was the thing that you just immediately identified with that spoke to your heart and like, you knew that you needed to utilize this in your life and dig in more? It was, I think I'll

spk_1:   9:20
have to say like it was. And this is how we're all narcissist, right? Like every single one of us, we all are like obsessed with our ego. Um, and our ego kind of controls everything that we do. So I would say in that moment I was listening to it thinking, Oh, that's why everybody I know so crazy, right? I'm like, Yeah, that explains that person and you fall, especially when you learned a new tool or a new typology. You're always trying to type other people apple and put people in little boxes and explain away their bad behavior. And you try to, like, ignore what's going on with you. Um and I you were We've established I'm a five. Um, my neg, like the negative traits and qualities of my type, are just kind of apathetic. They're not necessarily, like, in your face or like, super aggressive or like egregious, sort of like character flaws, as some other types would view there. Ah, misgivings when they're called out like they are. So my husband always has an eight. He's like, I feel like I'm always the jerk of the any grand like people think of us as, like, the real, like the bullies or whatever. I don't see that, but also I can hear how that would sound for him. Well, been a

spk_0:   10:30
blessing, like a stressed eight. Looks like people make sure like this dressed ate as like, the last that you're like hate and can't stand working like yeah, yeah, yeah, like

spk_1:   10:40
in a stressed five just shuts up and disappears like so really awful about. It is it's terrible, but, you know, it's so anyway, that was the thing. I'm like listening. I'm like, Oh, but it. But to me, what made the most sense was again emphasizing like, I think we all know on some level that were different and that not everyone is like us. But the

spk_0:   11:00
fact that it's so cleanly

spk_1:   11:01
fits nine other archetypes and perspectives and lenses of other ways. People see the world, um, made a lot of sense to me like it was like, Oh, I know that people react differently in different situations, but it's not just like 12 or three reactions. There are nine different starting points from which to view any scenario or which to engage with the

spk_0:   11:24
world. And there's blends of all those two. So and then from there, right?

spk_1:   11:30
And then you start talking subtypes and nuances and wings, and they're showman. And that's what I really loved about it, too, is that it's not so restrictive like it's not. It's not a limiting sort of system. It actually is super wide and allows for so much fluid ity around the whole system that it doesn't keep you locked in. Um, one of the things that I always took issue with with other typology, specifically Myers Briggs. And I mean, I know it kind of Well, I don't know it like I'm not, you know, super well versed in marriage brings. But I always used to take issue with the fact that specifically my type would change based on whether or not Andrew was home or deployed, because I had taken it a few different times a different points of my life. Like whether I was pregnant or not, I had a different result, right? Um and I know that when he was home or not, I would get a different result. So that had an immediate like, um, sort of transparency having to do with my stress level and like, my what was happening in my life. And it didn't allow for that and like washing. Why would it change anyway? I just always used to I didn't love that about it. It didn't seem like it fit well enough. But the anger and makes sense for all of these things. Like all of these dynamics and components is like eggs. You can explain. It s Oh, yes, it was just It's too useful. It just can't. It's incredible. I

spk_0:   12:48
love it. Yeah, so I got hooked. Um, I'd actually, like, learned about it several years ago. I was sitting also to a podcast. Um, and we don't actually talked about it at a church group. And I think I took a test and I told them my type, but then it, like, didn't and I'm not even sure that it was actually my right type. Um, I think I'm actually not even tricks. It really didn't resonate with me all the time. Why it didn't It didn't stick. Um, And then we listened to a podcast called Saturate, and they were talking about how the gospel is powerful with urine Ingram type, and we kind of looked into it a little bit, and it was like Maybe there's some impact here, but it was also like, right around that time, my son had been born without the heart and you're having open heart surgeries, and so we're just going through a lot of stress. At the time, it wasn't wearing a place to really grow with it, right? And so when a few months back I was reading a book called The Gift of Being Yourself, and it talks about how you have to accept yourself and all the terrible parts about you before you can grow and, like, flourish and be the best version of yourself and talking about, like, the course since of each of the anagram types. And I was like, Okay, I don't think I'm any of these by reading this, which means I'm probably in denial of my actual type. And so I took a test and I'm before, and it's like a like, manipulative causing drama, like that piece of being a romantic individualists that I really didn't want to even identify since I was very much in denial of my type. Um, so that was kind of my hook of like, Okay, now this is a thing that's gonna be used in my everyday life, because now I do understand myself better, and I think they're really freeing. Thing was, I didn't have to view that as shameful about myself anymore, but I could view it as like that's what it looks like under stress, but right when I'm growing and thriving. This is the beauty that that those same like traits about myself can look like. And I was just so profound and that's I've heard a lot of people kind of say that same thing is like I can see what it looks like under stress, but look at what it looks like when I'm growing. Okay? I want to grow now

spk_1:   14:56
s I ate the whole The name of the game is your self awareness, right? Like waking up to it and being aware instead of so the stuff that we're calling, like negative attributes or negative traits they're just coping mechanisms that have become automated, like That's just your go to It's literally your egos, like self defense, like, Oh, something stressful is happening or something challenging or something like, you know, whatever is happening, that I'm gonna do this because it's always worked for me in the past, right? So and we literally become asleep to it. So seeing your red flag moments or your shadows as you know, Freud and a lot of the other, any grams would even echo Is that you know, you want to pull that kind of stuff out from the shadow. It's not that you're casting a shadow, necessarily. It just happens to be

spk_0:   15:41
in a shadow

spk_1:   15:42
because you're not illuminating it and paying attention to it. So

spk_0:   15:45
pull that stuff out. Look at it. Make sure it's like it's an

spk_1:   15:48
okay way to treat a any kind of situation. Like if it's just if it's a behavior not paying attention to, it's probably worth like shaking it out and seeing if it still serves you in the best way possible. In a lot of times, it doesn't so, But I love the fact that the reason we ignore and kind of glance over some of the type descriptions Ah, lot of times people find their tights because it's the one that offends them the most, right? It's the one that, like ruffles the most feathers like, Oh, that person sounds like such a jerk. I don't want to know them that a but really, you're like Wait, you're feeling like convicted about something? Are you and that That's the one thing that a lot and I full like 100% agree with us. The test. There's a debate about whether or not shake test you know the immigrant test, and I do think that more often than not, it will lead people astray because it doesn't land like immediately. You don't resonate with it 100%. You're tempted to just toss the whole thing out, all right. It's just not just another one of these, you know, buzzfeed quizzes or whatever. Right? Um, and a lot of questions are built like that. I mean, truthfully, a lot of quizzes are made to be marketing funnels. I mean, best that asked the real deal. There's some that you can pay for their much better and much more in depth. But then you're also on Lee taking liquids to the extent that you are aware of your own behaviors. And the whole point is is that we don't know them because we've fallen asleep to them. So it does take often times a lot more discovery, a lot more self work, introspection, and I was like a practice of those moments where you stop throughout your day and notice. So I I try personally Teoh. Now that I'm aware of what, like my red flag trigger moments are like my stress movements look like I try throughout my day. Like if I start to feel like I'm unraveling, take a break almost like a meditative break. Take a moment. Okay, What am I telling myself right now? What is Bernet Brown's? What is the story? I'm telling myself that's a good practice for your personality construct because you're able to then say, Oh, I see what's happening. My ego is telling me, you know, because I got this email from this person. You know, my ego is trying to get defensive and say, Kelly, this is what this person said when in reality, if I just step back and think, Oh, no, that person, maybe I know their type. Maybe I know that person is a four, and I say, Oh, actually, she probably said this because, you know, once you start to kind of have more, a more holistic view of the way anyone interacts with the world and then also understand that more than likely they don't see things the same what you dio right? They're not seeing the same game play out as you are, so it just gives it lends way for so much more understanding and compassion and hopefully grace and especially toward yourself without judgment. So,

spk_0:   18:25
yeah, so with your husband being gone a lot, I imagine there's a lot of communication, especially when he comes back, like that adjustment period. I remember, even as a kid like that adjustment period is so hard. I remember one time my dad had just gotten home after, like, six months training or something. And I said, Good night, Mom, and went bad on my dad sitting there like good night. Oh, sorry. Like, just you're not normally there. So I can imagine, um, as a spouse, like you get used to being independent and doing things on your own and in their home. And then there's the expectation that now we do things together, and that would probably cause a lot of friction. And because you guys already maybe struggle to community located a little because you're different heights and use communicate differently. How has the angiogram been a transformational tool in helping you build a strong marriage that has endured all these years through all these deployments and all these different challenges?

spk_1:   19:26
Yeah, so it's it's a great it's a great thing to highlight, and I appreciate that you're even bringing like the military kid perspective into this. It's definitely something I worry about raising two kids in this environment like how to make sure that they're getting the best of both worlds, right? Um, and most people see the military unions, and they just see, like, homecoming moment and like the balloons and the flags and the banners. And

spk_0:   19:52
it's so

spk_1:   19:52
magical and we actually have a term for that. We call it reunion porn because people like Teoh get their fix by watching those sweet moments on the news clips. But they're never like folks going around to see the rest of it, right? It is. It is a serious transition and re acclamation readjustment. Um, I think every family is different. Every every marriage is different. Um, we we have what works for us not to say that it's easy or gets easier. It does not cause you're right. There are some real struggles and hurdles with communication, even just daily things like he's away. Um, he's got really big things to worry about and think about, Um, I don't unload to him like I do when we're sitting on the couch at night watching Netflix. It's a very different dynamics. So I try to deal with my own personal stress, my own personal problems as much as I can to be strong and said he's not worried about us. Um and he's doing the same thing for me, right? Like I don't know what he's doing way literally can't talk about things because of operational security and all kinds of other things. So our conversations air really like their small talk. It's how's the weather kind of crap. Um and that's not feeling like that's not a relationship. So we kind of put our marriage on pause for lack of a better way to say that, Um, yeah, it sucks. And then they come home and then the minute they walk through the door, you're like, OK, here, I'm done. I'm out Tag, you're it. I need to bring

spk_0:   21:16
it. And that's not

spk_1:   21:18
probably the best thing to do, either. A Zara's like logistics in our household. I mean, we we have a pretty solid kind of arrangement, like I've just always done or five says it's easier that way is easier admitted just being in charge of like the household budget and the everything because he can't be come to go in and reinserting himself all the time into my systems like that just does not. It's not sustainable. So the way we have kind of our home set up, he's able to come and go with the minimal amount of destruction possible. And that's pretty common. Um, as far as you know, as being able to use something a tool like the India Graham. We've only recently had this to use, like in the past few years. Unfortunately, he bought in, so I know like, OK, yeah, it's not like me forcing it on whomever you're being such an eight. No, he like, he will tell me. Wow. I read this thing about eight and Oh, my God, it's so true. And, um, some really like funny examples that I like to give, especially around stress. So we live in North Carolina and we get our fair share of hurricanes and storms that come in in the late summer, and he one year we had a famous Hurricane Matthew is a couple years ago, uh was headed towards us and he was home. But, um, I wanted to leave. I wanted to evacuate and like almost the point of being irrational and, like, frantic like I was like, packing stuff. Is that Kelly? You You can't leave. We had this huge argument about whether we stay or we leave and I'm like,

spk_0:   22:43
No, we have to leave.

spk_1:   22:44
There's a storm And he was like, No, if you, I can't He couldn't leave this work. He's like, If you leave, I can't protect you and my family. So once we sat down and realized what the argument was really about, we're talking about our core fears, right? My core fear is security, right? Like that is my central fixation. Motivation in everything I do is revolves around security. Um, I am also in the withdrawing stance as a five. So the way that I handled conflict is to run away, right? And my other thing that I'm super preoccupied with as a five are my resource is so five tend to hoard and protect, and that's why they castle up because they don't want anything to intrude in their inner sanctum. And and the things or the resource is that they've collected and they hold so dear because they operate on the scarcity mentality. So Hurricane was a threat to every literal resource that I have. Write me, my kids, my house, my food, my clothes because everything is is in jeopardy, right?

spk_0:   23:47
So I'm like, I don't

spk_1:   23:48
run away, right? Andrew as an eight, he's in the assertive stance.

spk_0:   23:53
He at one point walked out onto the front porch, but his

spk_1:   23:56
hands on his hips it was like staring at the storm. Alright, looking like look at the wind blowing. But I like

spk_0:   24:02
you jerk. You're literally They're down. Meanwhile, I'm in a bathtub with a blanket over me. You know, like I like. This is

spk_1:   24:12
so funny and it's but it's so illustrative. He's like his whole thing is, uh is he's a protector. He wants to make sure that his his resources are guarded. Not so much like, you know, taking care of it like guard. And he's like if you were on the road, if you are somewhere else, I cannot get to you. I can't be there for you. You will be vulnerable. Huge word for an eight. And he couldn't handle that because he needed to focus his ability to protect on one thing in one place. And he couldn't do that if we were splitting, fragments it out. So

spk_0:   24:41
once we understood where we were both coming

spk_1:   24:43
from, we were able to have a more productive conversation about like and

spk_0:   24:49
he's like

spk_1:   24:49
he and his whole thing was like, Kelly, I do stress. Well, I'm in eight is. What I do is when I made for and I'm like, Okay, I'm just gonna and I had to learn, like K trust that he can He can handle it, right? Or trust that there's nothing that I can really bring to this situation other than the fact that he wanted to run the generator by, like, kicking it. And I wanted to read the instruction manual for

spk_0:   25:09
two. That's a whole another conversation to get a

spk_1:   25:12
working like banging on it.

spk_0:   25:13
Can we just read the instructions like it'll be fine? I'm like nerd. Now wake up enemy Evan A and a five. I think I'm telling Hey do is like brute force. I'm just like, yes, it is like leave my will. And if I'm gonna investigate and watch the you tube videos and really I was like researching kind girl. I'm telling you so, but way complement

spk_1:   25:38
each other. So we could Yeah, so Yeah, but I think that example honestly eliminates a lot, especially with us like and there've been times where I'll be stressed or its were. We've gotta refer you just anything, like I'm just not I'm in a bad mood. I'm not in a good place. He'll try to hug me because that's what you're supposed to do. What? You're supposed to hug women and, you know, be the straw or whatever. And I'm like, he's one kind of so great. One day he was like he did that. He came up. He was like hugging me, and he stopped and he looked down. He's like, Kelly, you're not. This isn't good for you, is it? I was like this. This He was like, I feel you shrinking. I was like, You're draining. May God, I can't. I love you, but I can't do a hug like this. This to me. I feel like I'm giving to you. Vs I know he intends to give to me. He's trying to be affectionate, but to me that is it. I can't bear a in those moments. So what he now does, is he? Let's make asleep else I go going down, right? Like go escape. Go, go to bed, go recharge. And we call it hibernation. Like I go hibernate, obviously, you know, for an afternoon or take like, a marathon nap or something. And he knows that I need that to recharge. But the last thing I need is a hug or affection or being petted or whatever, because to me, that's not something that, um it's good for me, and he s Oh, I love that I love it.

spk_0:   26:56
Yeah, I love that I gave you guys that tool of, like, him being able to speak that love to you. But in a way that, like, actually does speak love to you rather than it just being this dysfunctional like, Well, this is what works for other couples. And so we're just gonna keep doing this dysfunctional thing that's actually causing more harm than good. I love that. That's so profound. Um, are there any moment out of there are moments that stand out to you? Like where your tyke even maybe in the past that like when you guys started to understand each other, there was like, this big argument or difficulty that all of a sudden became clear is to like what was going on there because you suddenly understood your types and like what the actual issue was that, like you were able to bring some resolution to something that you couldn't bring resolution to previously. I mean,

spk_1:   27:41
I think it happens a lot honestly, and it's it's honestly, more on, like micro levels and like not daily now, but typically like just the sort of interactions we have and also the way we understand people and react to other people individually and together as a couple, right, cause you know, you have couple friends, you have relationships that you have people all over the place. I think often times I'm more forgiving of others. He I'm more weary, not weary, leery of others when I first meet them like I want to sniff him out and have very low expectations for people. So even as we move around all the time, we're continually making new friends like this is not like a which is good for a 50 it's impossible. So we've established on the social fact, So I've got a leg up a little bit and have Also, this lifestyle has forced me into some developing habits that fives probably typically don't have to have, right? Um, so I will say that. But we were always exposed to new people and new crowds. And even when we're here, when we're not moving, everyone around us is moving. So our social dynamic is continually changing, and it's really complicated, and it's essential to have couple friends. You have to have people. And it's so much easier when you have couple friends instead of like your own crowd in his own crowd and spend so much time apart. We want to spend more together when he's home, all the things. But, um, it

spk_0:   29:02
gets really

spk_1:   29:02
complicated, especially when even just our own social circle now, like we're all kind of dealing with their own unique stresses, like we're all kind of under pressure all the time. So everyone's kind of acting out in their own way or acting badly in their own type. And before, we didn't really have a mechanism, Teoh understand that, or to navigate that it used to just be like, well, they suck or they're awful. We don't want to hang out with them or in Andrew. Especially like he's more trusting up front like he'll give everyone a chance. But you have one. That's it. And then you're done right. Whereas I am just like, Well, you know, we'll hang out with whoever a couple of times, but, like, I don't expect much. And they have to really, like, impress me to make it farther right? So we'll have our conversations after going to dinner with somebody new or something and like, it's just so funny to see how the both of us kind of interpret other people. Is there potential here? You know where I am being, like all like, kind of meta evaluating their whole their entire lives. Wonder where that came from. I'm like Googling them doing research, get a just like like him, like a violent way, have also both kind of step back, and we don't We don't try to type other people or anything like that, but I always kind of operate under this. Um, they're probably not a five, right? Who are? They're probably not in eight. And even if they were, they're probably not going to see the same things the way we see things, but You can almost make some allowances when you approach things in that way. So yeah, not like a specific, super specific example, but something that we encounter a lot. And I think it's helped us, um, just navigate relationships in general. So

spk_0:   30:44
awesome. Eso A lot of my audience is just exploring the any Graham right now, and some of them still maybe on the fence, about sitting, going, taking a test there, really exploring the different types and trying to figure out where they're at. Um, so if you have any resources which I have, like a massive list of, like tests and differently ways to explore type. But are there any of this specifically were really super helpful for you that you might suggest that I add to my mass resource list. Yeah,

spk_1:   31:11
so I really, really, really encourage people to find podcasts or blog's or videos of folks of the type you think you are like find. So I listen. Teoh. There was a podcast called Any Graham Panels or something like that, and there's the tradition of the whole school of thought, where they use the narrative tradition where it's it's super important to hear others talk about their experience and then tell you, Oh, Emma five right vs Just hearing like the paragraph blurbs of the typical type, or how people think they act right versus like. It's just so much more helpful to resonate with someone else's story. So hearing me talk, you know, until all of these things, if someone out there is listening is like Oh my God, I feel the same way It's a great place to start. Like here. Go listen to other people of the tight. It's your thinking about you might be. Just

spk_0:   32:03
explain how they live their life,

spk_1:   32:04
how they deal with stress. How what? We're formative moments for them in their childhoods. That's a big That's a big place to be, Um, and to spend some time is looking into your childhood wounds or you're lost. Childhood message. Ah, lot of times that could be really, really indicative. Eso there's my favorite author is Chris you Ertz? He wrote the sacred angiogram, and I think he has another book coming out soon. Um, and he's got a new part. Yeah, he's got a new podcast out. It's called the anagram map makers. Now he's a little esoteric like he's so he's out there. So you gotta like that's not like, you know, wash dishes, fold laundry and listen to a podcast, right? Like that's like, OK, I'm gonna sit with this and I'm gonna listen hard and I'm going to rewind a couple of times. But it is such rich content and he does a lot of work around Christianity and spiritually practices to. So that's and you confined kind of your jam all over the place, right? You confined folks that are secular. You confined, folks, that are you Christian based Richard Roar is a fantastic resource. He did a lot of early work with the India Graham specifically as it pertains to the Christian tradition. And, um so yeah, I would start. Where would I start? I really like Chris. Your It's his book. I think it's great.

spk_0:   33:17
A Are there any resource is it sounds like Chris here. It's what book was really profound for. I'm guessing your faith as well. But that's one of the things that really attracted me to the anagram is understanding how it also helps us relate to the gossip apple and help us understand how we relate to God eso have there been any revelations in that, um, that maybe have also been really profound for you. Yeah. I mean, I think

spk_1:   33:45
it it was probably It was probably Chris's because he talks about a lot of the spiritual practices that you can adapt for each type. Right? So that is super helpful, right? Even just for me. Um, they're just kind of around the circle, and I'm not gonna pretended. Like, teach his material. But you can. There are certain types that need to learn stillness. There are certain types that need to learn solitude, Right? There are some types they need to learn. Silence. Right. Silence is one of mine. Just turn it off like shut it down. Shut the brain off, like, sit with yourself. Be comfortable with yourself. And then there's a There's an action. It's either consenting. Um oh, gosh, no, I'm on the spot. I forget. Anyway, there are different ways of interacting with that practice, right? That makes sense for each type on. And then not only that when I kind of alluded to, like the lots, childhood messages and things like that what his work and a lot of Richard Roar and all of them kind of teach about is the fact that we have this core essence until we were created to be right in along the way. Our consciousness kind of can creates this armor around us, and it's these these mental fixed stations that are ego kind of like drums up and says gets in the way of who were supposed to be and who were created to be, um, and who we were, Um, who we

spk_0:   35:14
are is like

spk_1:   35:14
a manifestation of love, and we lose that along the way. So all of this work isn't toe like evolve into some higher being or anything crazy like that. It is literally shedding some of the lies that we've been telling ourselves, right? Shedding summer. Yeah, it's shutting some of the fixations and coping mechanisms and ways that we've deceived our own essence and gotten away from it and learning how to fall back into that believe that we are loved perfectly right that we were created to be love and to give love. And so that, to me, has been, um, it's still it's still a work in progress, but I'm still learning, doing grasp it and not just know it, but, like no, it in my heart. Right? And that's that's the work of a five is to get out of here and understand. Like, I could connect with that without understanding it. Right? Um and that's just that's been huge for me. Um,

spk_0:   36:06
awesome. So it sounds like I definitely to add Chris is everything. So my research? Absolutely.

spk_1:   36:12
Girl, I'm telling you s Oh, it's funny. So I have ah, have a podcast. Also, it's called advice not given. And I actually reached out to Chris, um, back in February and was able to interview him for our podcast. I still so this is maybe in a five. I have not even edited it yet cause I'm so like I'm still processing. It takes us a while to like it's a process, Understand? Think about how we feel about it here, that think about how we feel about it, Um and really, like, grasp all of the concepts that he brings up. But he said the new book he's got coming out is all about returning to your essence and like not just understanding these constructs of like personality and things like that cause that's important. That's kind of a first step. But then it goes so much deeper than that. Um, no, he's fantastic.

spk_0:   37:00
Yes, Awesome. Okay, well, I will be adding him to my resource list. And thank you so much for being a resource and sharing your story. It's so valuable. And I think it's also really relatable, which is really helpful, two, especially for those who are listening and trying to figure out whether type is and maybe trying to understand how this could be a useful tool for them to help them juice joy in their lives. So thank you so much for your time and your in your story. Is there anything else? You have the share before we say goodbye.

spk_1:   37:30
No, just stay safe. You guys Thursday home. Hang in there. Yeah, and just thanks so much for having me. This is

spk_0:   37:39
very yeah, awesome. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. I love this episode. I hope you loved it too. Hey, if you're new around here and you enjoyed this episode, hit the subscribe button and then that way, the next time an episode drops on the authentic sisterhood podcast, you'll get a notification. So you don't miss a thing if you've been listening for a while Air and he kind of enjoy hanging out with me. Could you do me a favor and leave ratings and good grief? I can't even talk. Could you leave a rating and review for me? It helps others find this podcast, which will help grow our audience. But what that does is by the audience growing. It enables me to get even Mawr awesome guests on the show talking about how they also inspire others to chase joy, which means I can bring you even mawr incredible content. So if you could take a second toe, leave a rating and review on this podcast on whatever platform you're listening to, that would be so great and will help bring even warming's and content. And just a reminder. If you like some or inspiration to chase, join your life, come find me on Instagram. And don't forget to check out the Authentic Sisterhood Academy where we've got various courses on high. You can chase joy and the mundane and difficult times of your life where about to launch a whole bunch of new courses, so we should go check it out. That's authentic sisterhood academy dot com But you can also find the links on Instagram too. So that's kind of a good hub place to start. So head over instagram and find me at authentic Sisterhood. And just in case you're curious, uh, you can find this podcast on basically all the platforms Google play Apple podcast Spotify our heart radio stitcher. I mean, we're basically everywhere. Go, subscribe. And I can't wait to chat with you next time when we talk about how the any Graham is useful in your parenting. All right, talk to you later. Mama's Good chase. Enjoy.